Diamond Rings and Silly Things: Why I Hate Politics

Here's the issue: I consider myself a pretty political person. I understand most of the issues, and those that I don't, I either research before opening my mouth or I stay out of it completely until I do understand. Or I find someone who in non-biased (at least not too much) and try to get the facts. Politics is a subject that I really, truly try to avoid talking about with anyone but a few select people that I trust will not try to destroy me for my beliefs. Today I saw the perfect example of why I hate discussing politics. This is 2 conversations that happened on my friend Matt's wall today. The only thing changed in these conversation threads are the names and deleting the pictures to protect their privacy. You'll see where people try to stop it, and how other people keep going with it. It's truly sad that people are this disrespectful.

The other thing you have to realize is that Matt is an awesome, friendly, relaxed and chill person. He can get along with anyone and doesn't want to cause a scene or offend anyone.

Also as a disclaimer - I don't recommend reading the whole thing - it's just too long for that and you'll probably be just as pissed off or annoyed as I've been all day. Just glance through both and see a few of the things people wrote.

Alright, so the first thread was because Matt had his political views on Facebook listed as Conservative. He changed it half way through this thread. The second thread is Matt being annoyed with this first thread. Enjoy!

A M Conservative my butt, you got to change your political views son.

Saturday at 12:01pm · Comment ·

- C McF Actually A M, you need to change your political views.
  Saturday at 1:03pm · · 1 person
- M L I agree with C McF!!!!!
  Saturday at 1:35pm ·
- A M Matt is not a conservative, he told me himself. I was just telling him to correct what he had put down, not necessarily change his political views. G guys, getting all up in my grill, obviously I now know where you two stand in political views.
  Saturday at 2:43pm ·
- C McF Haha! I wasn't trying to "get up in your grill." If you want to see something fun, just go have a debate with B Z about politics
  Saturday at 4:44pm ·
- A M I already have, fortunately I agree with a lot of things that he believes but I don't consider myself to be a conservative or a "Reagan Conservative" like a lot of you are trying to claim. I ask you C McF, do you even know what it means to be a Reagan Conservative?
  Saturday at 5:43pm ·
- Matt J Holy cow guys! I love it, I feel like I'm on Jerry Springer ;) I would have to say that I consider myself a very open minded Mormon. So whatever category that falls into, I dunno. I have my standards and beliefs, but I am very tolerant of others and their beliefs. So probably not conservative per say, but not really liberal either. Somewhere in the middle?
  Saturday at 8:48pm ·
- C McF Haha! We'll talk to Big Ben about this
  Sunday at 11:56am ·
- B Z
  Matt, it's an enormous falsehood that being conservative means being intolerant. I would venture to say that it is exactly opposite. Liberalism is hypocritically intolerant of those who will define right and wrong. Tolerance, contrary to popular opinion does not mean acceptance of sin, it means tolerating, (the key word) those in spite of their sins and differences.
  Speaking of liberals, let's see what the brethren have said.
  Elder John A. Widtsoe said: "“The self-called liberal [in the Church] is usually one who has broken with the fundamental principles or guiding philosophy of the group to which he belongs. … He claims membership in an organization but does not believe in its basic concepts; and sets out to reform it by changing its foundations. …"
  
  And then Dr. Widtsoe concludes his statement with this: “It is well to beware of people who go about proclaiming that they are or their churches are liberal. The probabilities are that the structure of their faith is built on sand and will not withstand the storms of truth.” (“Evidences and Reconciliations,” Improvement Era, vol. 44, p. 609.)
  Harry Reid would do well to take heed to this council.
  
  Also the words of President Harold B. Lee ring in on this topic.
  "There are those in the Church who speak of themselves as liberals who, as one of our former presidents has said: “… read by the lamp of their own conceit.” (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1939], p. 373.) One time I asked one of our Church educational leaders how he would define a liberal in the Church. He answered in one sentence: “A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have a testimony.”
  
  These quotes can be found on Lds.org and were published in the ensign, which is considered modern day scripture.
  
  http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=7c83630f0869b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
  Sunday at 2:54pm ·
- P M
  if you look at the basic principles of liberalism and conservatism, i think it would be safe to say that christians SHOULD be liberal. liberalism focuses on human rights; conservatism focuses on property rights. liberalism focuses on sacrificing for the whole; conservatism focuses on "keeping what you earned to yourself." Liberalism leans more towards a socialistic society, where conservatism leans more towards a capitalistic society.
  
  If I understand correctly, Jesus taught that we should dedicate our lives to serving others and making sure their needs are met before our own. There is also this thing called the Law of Consecration that is probably the most liberal concept to a capitalist conservative. I dunno... sounds like Jesus was a liberal. ;)
  Sunday at 11:51pm ·
- J B
  Sounds like p m doesn't read the scriptures, or listen to the prophets is what it sounds like ;)
  
  see what I did there?
  
  You wanna see something funny mr i think Jesus is a Liberal. Go look up who donates more to causes liberals or conservatives. Go look up which side is actually "generous."
  
  By your definition liberals lean towards "socialistic societies" and conservatism leans towards "capitalistic societies." Though your premise is horribly flawed i'll run with it for the sake of argument. Now what would you say the constitution's original intent promotes socialistic society or capitalistic? See the problem is you either will claim "socialistic" in which case i'll have to assume you've never even looked at the constitution and are just another ignorant person running his mouth trying to act clever with hyperbole's and ill preformed wit. Or you will concede that the constitution promotes a capitalistic society, and that there in lays the problem. In which case I would point you to the many many volumes (literally) of talks, scriptures, essays, etc.. written by prophets of God claiming the exact opposite, that it is in fact the most inspired document to ever govern a people. That in it the precepts of "divine rule" are taught (i'd love for you to challenge me on this i will literally bury you). In fact I invite you to join us on September 17th at the Conference center while we sit at the feet of a prophet (Dallin H. Oaks) and hear him tell us how inspired of a document it is. Hear him tell us how it must be defended, and that it is as prophesied up to the Elders of Gods church to make sure its tenets are adhered to.
  
  A M I love you but your "Reagan Conservative" comments are really immature. You either come with logic, facts, or something of substance, (I know thats a hard thing I ask of a self proclaimed liberal) or do not come at all. When you simply insult i'll have no hesitation to tear into you public forum or not.
  
  As for Mr. "jesus is a liberal" you clearly did not even read Ben's post. I suggest if you in fact desire to engage in a debate you actually read the other side so as to never look like the ignorant child you have manifest today. You claim to "hate the two party system" but seem to be walking the liberal party line quite nicely. Of course its easier to "sound politically correct" than to actually take a stand isn't it? "So because thou are likewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:16 In short Mr "i'll make claims about Jesus I have no business making" you do not understand correctly, and i'd appreciate it if you didn't try and belittle others with snotty remarks.
  Yesterday at 1:16am · · 1 person
- B Z
  The big problem with liberalism, is that it hides itself as a sheep, but inwardly is a ravening wolf. It hides itself under the guise of 'social justice', an erroneous phrase in an of itself, being called justice, but instead a form of faux mercy, without regard to any personal change, and robbing individuals the opportunity of learning from their irresponsible actions. This is not true mercy, which 'cannot rob justice' as the scriptures tell us, but instead, also robs the individual of the opportunity to use their money wisely, by their own judgment, to help those in need, seeing that the advocate becomes the government, instead of the individual. This is political social justice at it's best, which as previously mentioned, is no justice at all.
  Jesus Christ never advocated for Cesar to take the act of charity into the governments hands, no, instead Jesus taught personal responsibility, individuals making a choice to help those in need. Even the more modern law of consecration ( meaning when it was practiced in the early days of our church) was entered into by choice, not by compulsion, and those who did not do the work for their part were kicked out.
  
  I have a feeling that going to the effort of looking up facts that contradict your opinions is too much effort for you, therefore, I did you the service of finding the statistics, and even a misguided, but honest liberal opinion.
  
  http://blog.fortiusone.com/2009/01/07/dataset-of-the-day-who-is-more-generous-republicans-or-democrats/
  
  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html
  
  Gallup recently did a poll that some might fond interesting. It found that statistically, mormons are the most conservative people in the united states, by a large margin, This data may also suggest that the longer a mormon stays liberal, the more likely they are to become less active members of the Church.
  
  http://www.gallup.com/poll/125021/mormons-conservative-major-religious-group.aspx
  
  Lastly, the comment of 'Jesus is a Liberal' is one of the most offensive, ignorant, and blasphemous things I have ever heard any member of the church say. You should be ashamed of yourself. The phrase implies that Jesus Christ advocates sinful behavior, as Liberals advocate homosexual behavior, abortion, sexual indiscretion, population control, and a host of other immoral and wretched practices. The one redeeming value of the 'supposed' liberal agenda is charity, which statistically, is not their agenda, but a guise, that preys on the hearts of the weak-minded, who dare not look beneath the surface.
  
  Shame on you for equating MY Savior to such wretched, disgusting, and immoral ideals.
  Yesterday at 8:54am ·
- P M
  I think we are mixing definitions here, which is common in this arena. Liberal is NOT democrat and conservative is NOT republican. Though they are often related on many issues and topics, they are not and should not be ignorantly tied to each other.
  
  Liberal:
  1.favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties. (2 Nephi 2:27)
  2. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression. (Articles of Faith 1:11)
  3. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies (Constitution of the United States of America)
  4. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant (Romans 13:8-10)
  5. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts (1 Kings 17:8-24)
  6. given freely or abundantly; generous (Mark 12:41-43)
  
  So, from the true definition of LIBERAL (not democrat), Jesus was most definitely a Liberal, as should all christians be liberal as well. Granted, they should also be extremely conservative in the principles of the gospel, i.e., not changing views to fit the ways of the world.
  
  I will also say that Jesus, along with the LDS church is VERY RADICAL to the rest of the world. Jesus taught radical principles daily, as does the LDS missionaries, supporting dramatic lifestyle changes.
  
  Alas, if you so desire, continue stir up as much contention as you can muster (3 Nephi 11:29-30) and pridefully destroy people of different beliefs and proclaim yourselves Learned, as you obviously are (Alma 31). ;)
  
  As for me, I will continue to throw out ignorantly witty comments. I will continue hate the two party system as neither a Democrat or a Republican, though seemingly liberal. I will continue to consider MY Savior as the King of kings, Lord of lords, and Advocate for all things true and good. Good day sirs. :)
  Yesterday at 11:48am ·
- J B Way to not read or respond intelligently at all. I'm glad you gave the classical definition of liberal in your latest post, yet professed the progressive liberal interpretation in your former post. You are the one equating parties to ideology not us. And yes those who are ignorant are unlearned. Fact is you have none, fact is we do. You lose. Don't you for one second pretend that us standing on principle is us being arrogant. We are simply not ashamed if the gospel of Christ.
  Yesterday at 12:32pm ·
- Matt J
  Thanks for turning my wall into a political debate guys. All I have to say is that I am slightly ashamed at the arrogance portrayed here. I thought being a Christian was to be loving towards others, not tearing others apart because of the fact that they have differences. We fought for Agency in the Pre-Mortal life, and our forefathers fought for freedom in America. That's the beauty of America, we are FREE TO CHOOSE how we wish. Now I may not know that much about Politics, but I DO BELIEVE that Jesus Christ taught us to be loving towards all mankind, despite these differences, and not act as insufferable know-it alls. If my comment offends anyone, I apologize, that is not my intent. I consider all of you my friends. Rather I am trying to say as nicely as possible that I think you should keep your political debates and opinions on your own facebook walls. Thanks!
  Yesterday at 2:18pm · · 1 person
- B Z
  Yeah P M, I am pretty sure this is a political conversation, focused on ideals and not parties, and the only mention I had of republicans was in a link that tied republicans to POLITICAL conservatives and democrats to POLITICAL liberals. Your definition of liberal by no means defines the modern american political definition.
  Paul (The apostle, not White) said this: Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good.
  This is a very good definition of Modern Conservatism. In fact historically, those things which were not good, i.e. racism, slavery etc., where battled and changed by conservatives, while the change of those truly immoral practices were fought against by liberals.
  I think if you truly feel that is what liberals are then it is a very nobel cause, but the fact is, that the Political Liberal talks like they care, but statistically does not. And to conform yourself to a politically defined liberal ideology is in direct opposition to the Plan of Happiness our Father in Heaven has designed for us. There is a big difference between freely giving of your substance, and being forced to by the compulsory means of the Government.
  I do agree with you that Republican is not solely Conservative, and democrat is not solely liberal, the republicans are often not conservative... however most democrats are NOT conservative. There are certainly exceptions, and we have had some here in utah. Mattheson is a good example. One thing to remember is that in the current political atmosphere, Republican and Conservative, are almost synonymous, and the same can be said for Democrats, and Liberals.
  So for the current state of discussion, lets remain here in reality, with modern definitions.
  Yesterday at 3:02pm ·
- P M I said GOOD DAY! ;) Sorry Matt.
  Yesterday at 3:22pm ·
- P M ‎(That was a Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory quote... just in case you didnt know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Rjn6W9jYk)
  Yesterday at 3:34pm ·
- Matt J Love it P M!
  Yesterday at 8:05pm ·
- B Z Apparently you didn't mean it or you would never have posted again.
  Yesterday at 8:27pm ·
- C McF B Z and J B, I figure that you guys are quite used to the whole "I don't care what you're saying, just listen to me." In which, you listen and give them counter arguments but they're still not reading or caring about anything you wrote but they still claim that you aren't listening to them. They must lack the definition of "counter-argument."
  21 hours ago ·
- J B
  Yes sadly C McF that is how most arguments with liberals go. However the issue I have here runs a lot deeper than someone simply "not listening" to what I have to say. See what happened here was (i thought) a debate, granted it was a one sided affair in actual facts, but thats another argument. That turned into "your a bad person and arrogant because you called someone else's beliefs wrong." The thing that makes me sick to my stomach about all of this is i'm pretty sure all of us involved (minus you C but that will change soon) are return missionaries. We all went out into the world told people how wrong they were and that they should drastically change their lives and adhere to God's teachings OH THE ARROGANCE WE HAD! How could we do such a thing! We must have offended Satan so much we should all repent! Fact is if you actually believe in the views you profess a belief in there should be absolutely zero hesitation to stand up and proclaim them from a mountain top, you should never fear someone questioning them, you should never back down, lie down or "accept" what is contrary to what you believe. Sure you should be tolerant but if the debate field is opened, and both parties are engaged in my heavens you better throw your soul behind your position because there is no middle ground when it comes to right and wrong. There is no lukewarm. You either follow God's commandments/teachings or you don't. We don't let people who pass half the temple recommend interview into the temple just as we shouldn't let people who are "half good" nor laws or legislation that "means well" govern our lives. Joseph Smith taught that we must work out how to be Gods ourselves. How can we do that when we are so afraid of offending someone that we wont stand up for what we believe in? Agency was not what the war in heaven was about, it was about one plan over another we exercised our agency freely there and fought for the side we believed in. The revolution was fought for economic, and religious freedom. Not simply freedom to choose. I for one will never stop, I plan to "labor all my days declaring repentance unto this people." no C what is sad is to see that so many have forgotten their mission call.
  19 hours ago ·
- B Z Jesus Christ was crucified for his arrogance, proclaiming himself a king.
  19 hours ago ·
- A M
  I remember one time I spoke to this Muslim guy not too long ago and we had a conversation about religion. It started out with me just telling him how cool of a robe he had on and how I can get one because it looked really conferable. Anyways we started talking about Jesus Christ how to him Jesus was just a prophet and the Koran says this and that. Then I gave him my side of the story of who Jesus Christ really was. Now this was a black guy who use to be a baptist and he was a convert to the Muslim religion. We had a good conversation and there was no contention what so ever. Then this Muslim guy told me something I will never forget. He told me that most times when I share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with people from another religions and when they don't want anything to do with it it's because they are afraid that they are going to be wrong. I thought that was a true statement because this Muslim guy like most Muslims know their own doctrine and believe it is true to the core just like we do as LDS members and other reasons as well. When I think of that day, it always reminds me of the mission. Not one day goes by that I don't think about my mission. Everything that has to do church doctrine as Pres. Kimball put it, it's all "absolute truth". So I don't hesitate to stand up for the church even unto death. But unlike the church I can say that all things are absolute truth. Therefore as a critical thinker as myself I stand up for what I believe but at the same time I might just change my opinion because I'm not bias and I have been wrong many times. As far as politics, I listen to the argument and pick a side of what I feel is right. That is all and try not to be so arrogant about it. I thought I could just share that after what J B just said. We just all got to speak for ourselves because many people in our ward think they know me very well and they have no idea and they begin to judge, typical, but not right.
  11 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter Hi Matt! So the other day I was walking to the store and I saw a unicorn and do you know what he told me? He said that Matt is the coolest guy ever! Of course I can only assume he meant you because you are just so awesome like that. So I thought that I would post this on your wall because this is the kind of stuff I know you like to be put on your facebook wall. :)
  11 hours ago · ·
- J B
  We are taught in the temple about truth...if you actually believe the claims you have made about not everything being "an absolute truth" I recommend revisiting the temple....There is no middle ground A M. I don't know you too well I'll be the first to admit that, I'll also point out however that you did the very thing you have just condemned me for, this started by you telling matt he was something, when he had stated in writing he was something else. I have no idea your political views A M other than you are a self proclaimed liberal, if you honestly believe your views are right and mine our wrong I would hope you would try and help me see the light. I know I desire all my friends to be no longer tossed to and fro by every whim of doctrine and slight of men(also known as what the media feeds them). You all fall into that category. I'll not ask forgiveness in my zeal for the truth.
  11 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter Sorry Matt, I tried. People are just too inconsiderate to take their own personal conversations elsewhere.
  11 hours ago · ·
- A M
  Dude I am well aware of what Rev. 3:15-16 says, I used that scripture a lot when our investigators were too afraid to commit to something. I always pick a side, although I can be hot one day and who knows three years from now I can be cold, but I always pick a side. I don't like on no mans land and get shot. Sometimes I try not to get involved because I have no idea of whats going on. Plus I said "not everything!" is absolute truth like Charles Darwin's theory on evolution. I visit the temple every week thank you very much, I'm thinking about going today...you wanna come?
  10 hours ago ·
- A M Hey Matt one time I had three cookies, then a pony came along and ate one. Then I only had two left. lol
  10 hours ago ·
- J B Sure what time? And not really sure why your talking about rev 3:16 did I even mention that in my last post? Sorry if I did in soon all this from my phone and I can't go back and read what was written while I respond.
  10 hours ago ·
- J B ‎@ mindy Matt has the ability to shut this down at any time but unless he exercises that power this is a public forum so until he does it is not inconsiderate to discuss things in a public forum.... Thanks for calling us names though that was productive.
  10 hours ago ·
- J B A M ya I re-read what I wrote I get how you took it that way but that's not what I meant. I did not mean to imply you hadn't picked a side, just that I had no idea what that was other than you claiming a more liberal approach to things. My ignorance of your views was not meant to imply you have none, but simply stating I know not what they are, and have never felt that you tried to proselytize me with them, something I think anyone with a worthy message would hopefully do.
  10 hours ago ·
- A M Whatevs bro. Hey I forgot we have institute at 7:30 so might not be able to go today especially because my truck has broken down which sucks because I really wanted to go. I'm just going to go institute with Matt. Welcome to join us.
  10 hours ago ·
- J B I do institute through Weber but thanks for the invite.
  10 hours ago ·
- B Z My institute teacher is The Holy Ghost. :D
  10 hours ago ·
- K N and ladies and gentleman.. this is one of the many reasons I left the church! who is a better mormon? conservatives or liberals? hello.com anyone who even tries to answer or debate that question sucks! Both of you get to your holy temple and let the "spirit" tell you your right and others are wrong mmmkay!
  2 hours ago ·
- C McF K N,
  There's this beautiful thing called spelling/grammar check. Did you turn it off?
  about an hour ago ·
- K N Awe crap, you're right cory! shoot.... well I guess my opinion doesn't count now huh?
  about an hour ago ·
- B Z I'm sure it wasn't cause there were just too many sins you didn't want to feel guilty about anymore. And I'm sure you maintained the morals and values and just left because of those things right?
  
  K N ha ha ha ha! oh ben...No noo please keep going! there is a reason you are on here and not a REAL political forum...THEY WOULD EAT YOU'RE SCRIPTURE QUOTING ASS ALIVE! as for me... why would I leave because of a sin? what you are doing is a sin...didn't jesus teach you not to cast stones? Self righteous people are soo wonderful. They have truely destroyed the whole purpose and plan behind religion. You blame it on satan and sins for driving people away but really it's people just like you.

Wow, that was a lot. Here's the second thread (although they were going at the same time for most of the discussion)

Matt J has decided that Politics can be as stinky as his feet when he's worn the same shoes all day long.

Yesterday at 2:22pm · Comment ·

3 people like this.
- B H Oh Matt. You are so innocent. Politics can (and IS) a lot worse than that. But you're on the right track :)
  Yesterday at 4:54pm ·
- M J Politics is as stinky as an unnamed female friend of mine who eats healthy crap and smells like rotten milk when she toots. Stinky stinky...
  Yesterday at 5:16pm ·
- B H Mike... very creative! Gettin warmer... haha
  Yesterday at 5:58pm ·
- Matt J Ya all you gotta do is read the political debate that got started on my wall and you'll see why I'm bugged.
  22 hours ago ·
- B H Where?? I would like to see it.
  22 hours ago ·
- B J K It can be much worse... When you have worn same shoes all day long for at least 6 months...
  22 hours ago ·
- J B
  ‎"Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil. (D&C 98:10.)
  
  Now that is a commandment to his Church and to his Saints. To me it means that we have a responsibility as Latter-day Saints to use our influence so honest men and wise men and good men will be elected to public office in the community, in the county, in the state, and in the nation. To me this commandment of God is just as binding upon the Latter-day Saints as is the law of tithing, or the Word of Wisdom, or any other commandment which the God of heaven has given us...
  
  So, today, I would like to throw out a challenge to the elders of Israel, my brethren of the priesthood, that we put forth an effort to prepare ourselves for statesmanlike work. The Prophet Joseph, as you will recall, had something to say regarding the important part which the elders of Israel would play in the safeguarding, if not the saving, of the Constitution of this land.
  
  It is my conviction that only in this land, under this God-inspired Constitution, under an environment of freedom, could it have been possible to have established the Church and kingdom of God and restored the gospel in its fulness. It is our responsibility, my brethren and sisters, to see that this freedom is maintained, so that the Church can flourish in the future." President Ezra Taft Benson Disagrees with you. (”Our Duty as Citizens” 920, 922) It may not be a comfortable work, but by God i'll not shirk my duty.....I hope to be able to stand before the judgment bar of God and proclaim that I accepted this challenge given to the Elders of Israel.
  18 hours ago · · 1 person
- B H
  ‎@ Matt: Sorry I'm about to do this.
  @ J B: Sorry, but I (an active Latter Dat Saint) believe you are missing Matt's original point, and although your quotes and references are accurate, you have done what the Book of Jacob referred to as "looking beyond the mark".
  
  It is indeed a commandment to seek out righteous men (and women) to lead this nation's government. However, the argument you pointed out was inferring that Matt and the rest of us are just a bunch of non voters who don't want to stand up to the challenge we have as responsible American citizens.
  
  On the contrary, Matt's simple point (I have not read the debate he referred to) was that politics can suck; it can get dirty... And to claim otherwise is pure ignorance. You're argument is a call to battle, whilst Matt's argument was merely an accurate description of how nasty said battle can be/ is.
  12 hours ago ·
- J B On the contrary, I never once called any of you non voters, I just assumed from your sentiments expressed that none of you are what we were asked to become by a prophet...active statesmen.
  10 hours ago ·
- J B Just merely showing the other side of the coin your welcome to hate politics and stay out of it, I just feel it is morally wrong.
  10 hours ago ·
- B H
  With all due respect J B, I am involved in a basic form of politics, serving as President of my HOA. I deal with politics all the time. Your assumptions need to be made more carefully in the future.
  
  It is not morally wrong to hate politics. It is almost human nature to hate the notion of lies and deceit in the name of freedom and progress. Politics can and does "stink". That's all Matt was saying.
  10 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter On the good ship lollipop. Its a sweet trip to a candy shop....
  10 hours ago · · 1 person ·
- B H Mindy wins!
  10 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter Yay me! :)
  10 hours ago · ·
- Matt J Mindy your my favorite ;)
  7 hours ago ·
- J B
  If you believe you being involved in a home owners association is fulfilling the prophets challenge that is between you and God. I'll however respectfully disagree. A statesmen an HOA president is not. The fact that you attribute or rather associate the word politics with those negative things you've listed just furthers my assumption (which is proving quite valid) that you have never undertaken a serious study of the subject. In fact the very notion that an inanimate subject could be the source of anything be it negative or positive is a foolish notion. The people involved may indeed be these things you say but politics is merely the science or art of government. To claim otherwise is like people who claim guns kill, or that spoons made Rosie O'donnell fat. The instrument is not to be blamed for the individuals action. I'm sorry you feel so attacked I merely quoted the prophet and defended my passion, I do not however apologize for my stance.
  7 hours ago ·
- Matt J J B although I loved the comment about Rosie O'donnell, I think it's seriously time that you stop. If you can't respect that, then I'll delete it. I'm sorry if you're offended, but really enough is enough. I'm not the type to get real serious over anything, as most people know. I'm the type to be super chill, but this time I'm serious man.
  7 hours ago · · 1 person
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter Matt that is so convenient because you are my favorite as well! We should eat some frozen yogurt to celebrate this...and because I love frozen yogurt...mmmm....
  7 hours ago · ·
- Matt J Good idea Mindy! Come to Camilla's saturday night. We're havin a party! B you too!
  7 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter LOL, does Camilla know about this party, or are you just planning it there? :)
  7 hours ago · · 1 person ·
- Matt J Hmmm, that reminds me, I should probably inform her of this ;) Nah, she knows.
  7 hours ago ·
- Camilla OJ Hahah I know, and you are more than welcome! :)
  6 hours ago ·
- B H
  Shoot I'm booked Matt! Otherwise I would!
  
  @ J B: There is a time and a place for everything. Your defense for your passion is not incorrect, however, AGAIN all Matt was saying was that Politics can really suck sometimes. You wouldn't be so quick to fire off your mouth had you held any public responsibility in your life. I assume you haven't, because you write like a scholar, and not like someone who has actually had to make decisions in any sort of office.
  
  Plus, the way you write is condescending. I am not offended because I can tell by the way you write and the materials you pull your content from.
  
  You can write long scholarly posts all day long man. You can quote Moses and Gordon B. Hinckley and Pres. Widstoe and "sit at the feet of a prophet of God" all you want (you're a little dramatic, dude - lighten up). But until you have actually held a position where your decisions directly affect the private sector (whether that be on an HOA board or the Oval Office, the principles are the same Mr. Reagan Conservative) you have no basis to know just how ugly politics can get. I'll finish arguing with you by repeating what I said first: There is a time and a place for everything. And Matt's simple yet insightful post was neither the time nor the place for you to call the gentiles unto repentance.
  
  So, long story short, back off nerd.
  6 hours ago ·
- J B
  If you feel the need to delete my posts you are welcome you have it within your power to but I'll never stop defending what I believe to be part of our stewardship here on earth. I do not speak smooth things nor deceits I speak what is right. (Isa. 30:10)
  
  Matt you know I love and respect you. You are literally one of my favorite people, but we each have to do what we have to do I'll not view you any different for doing what you feel you need, just as I'd expect the same curtesy from those I associate with.
  6 hours ago ·
- B H J B! I have rarely come across someone so prideful as you! Learn a little humility man. Good luck getting married... sheesh!
  6 hours ago ·
- Matt J Thank you muchas much J B.
  6 hours ago ·
- J B
  Sorry Matt but I'll not let a personal attack such as that go without reply.
  
  B H your name calling is oh so productive thank you. As for positions I've held I need not justify myself to you I have in fact held many a position that does very much effect private and public enterprise. That however is irrelevant by your argument only those in positions of power should have a say..an interesting elitist position.
  
  As for your compliment of my writing I thank you. I will take the critic that i am condescending with a grain of salt seeing as it is you that us insulting me on a personal level. Although I fear you may not be as certain about my "supposed sources" as you think. To my knowledge (and you'll have to excuse me if I'm mistaken I am after all doing all this from a phone.) I have only quoted scripture and a book by ETB.
  
  As for your personal attack upon both my integrity and my relationship status I hope you are wrong. I am in fact un married but I am not single.
  6 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter Ha ha, sweet Camilla I'll see if I can come! It would be awesome to see you guys again! :)
  6 hours ago · ·
- Camilla OJ Perfect! Just let me know if you need the address... unless I think I may have already given it to you :)
  6 hours ago ·
- Matt J I hope you come Mindy!
  6 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter Yep, you sent it to me before so I still have it in my messages. :) You should send me your phone number though just in case I get lost.
  6 hours ago · ·
- Matt J I'm warning you now Mindy, I always cheat at Apples to Apples.
  6 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter I LOVE APPLES TO APPLES!!! And I cheat too, so I guess it will just make the game more interesting! :)
  6 hours ago · ·
- Matt J Perfect ;)
  6 hours ago ·
- James S Ya! I get to see Mindy... Maybe... @j b And b h... Stop. Stop being pricks and email your debates to each other, matt even asked you. Write a book nobody will read if you feel the need... Which reminds me, Matt I hope you are still writing yours!
  6 hours ago ·
- Jen C Matt, Mindy, and Camilla. You are awesome. :)
  5 hours ago ·
- B Z
  Any person who does not believe in getting involved in politics, is going against the council of the first presidency, and to be ashamed of those who seek to debate issues of eternal importance, is akin to willful ignorance. In March of this year, the first presidency issued a statement on the importance of attending caucus meetings (not just HOA meetings). And being involved is political discussion to become well informed on important issues (non of which would be part of the average HOA meeting).
  
  http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/first-presidency-letter-on-utah-precinct-caucus-meetings
  
  I would venture to guess that J B (and myself) are likely the only ones who posted on this thread, that followed their prophetic council.
  
  I would not consider the words ignorant and idiotic to be personal attacks when it can be thoroughly proven that they have made uninformed statements. The Guilty just taketh the truth to be hard.
  
  What's really sad is this:
  
  "For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward." D&C 58:26
  
  Being given this council, one would think that a faithful servant would discount anything that is not directly compelling them to do a specific task. In fact, one should be more willing to expand upon the words of the Doctrine and Covenants, rather than "wresting" other scriptures to try to disprove them.
  
  "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:16
  
  What is even worse is when those same "servants" , when compelled by direct instruction, still fight against it, and call people who do prideful. These are the same 'servants' to stone the prophets.
  5 hours ago ·
- J B
  ‎@ James S
  and the name calling continues, thank you for your input. As stated Matt has the power to delete whatever he wishes, but facebook is a public forum if you are offended your welcome to not read my posts.
  
  @ B Z
  figured you'd find your way over here eventually. I fear i may have stirred up a hornets nest though, it seems some people are not used to debating in a public forum, which is fine debate is not everyone's way i just feel it is better to debate a question and not settle it than to settle a question and not debate it.
  5 hours ago ·
- Jen C
  Ridiculous! He may have the power to delete it, but you obviously don't respect him. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Good Job J B, B H and B Z. You now have made it known that no matter what anyone says you will most likely remain impertinent. I agree like James (except the prick comment, no need for name calling) that if you wish to continue your debate that is your God given/constitutional freedom right. E-mail each other. You have nothing to prove to anyone except Matt that if you truely respect him you will cease your insolent behavior.
  4 hours ago ·
- B Z Considering this is the only common forum we have, email is out of the question. Jen, you are as guilty as all of us for posting. Hypocrite. Besides, as he has said, we are just making him feel popular. :D
  4 hours ago ·
- James S Yes, the prick comment was over the line. I agree. But I'm not one to take things back if they are true =) I realize this now makes me one, but I'm okay with that =D Jen, wiser words have never been spoken, and B Z, welcome to the prick club!
  4 hours ago ·
- Jen C I will be the first to tell you B Z, that I am not perfect :) If i were a hypocrite as you say then cast the first stone.
  4 hours ago ·
- Jen C
  Matt and Mindy. How fun to play a round of Apples to Apples with you. Cheaters make that game so fun!
  Oh Matt remember the good ol' days of working at JCP? I was just reminicing about some adventures that happened during our time there. :D Good Times :D
  4 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter
  ‎@ B Z and J B, but mostly B Z - it's actually really easy to send private messages to eachother if you want to on here - just click on the other person's name and right below their profile picture there's a link that says "Send (insert other person's name) a message". You don't need to be friends per se to do this and this way you can continue your discussion without involving the rest of us who are asking to let us live in our so called "willful ignorance". That way everyone is happy. :)
  3 hours ago · ·
- B Z You miss the point, private messages do not a public forum make. Defeatist.
  3 hours ago ·
- J S
  Mindy, I offered them neutral ground in which to debate politics. They declined. Why? I don't know, they like to make fools of themselves? (Or they cant hack a REAL Public Political Forum, which for clarification this is NOT! I'm looking at you bz boy *squints eyes*. YOU miss the point, this is facebook silly, and Matt's wall. MATT's wall. ) Mindy, I'd also like to say I hope you make it Saturday. Matt cheating at Apples to Apples is not a thing to miss. Hilarity will ensue. I hope it will be purely political free too! Time and a place!
  3 hours ago ·
- Mindy Daugherty Hunter Ha ha, for sure I will DEFINITELY be happy if it's political free. :) I'm going to try - I keep thinking I'm supposed to do something that I can't remember, which is the only reason I can't give you a definite until I figure out what the heck that is! :)
  3 hours ago · ·
- J O
  Holy Hannah Josephine! That was quite the read. Little over the top, but whatever. Some of my closest friends are a part of this thread (you know who you are), and I think we should all just get along. :) Besides, despite anyone's beliefs Jesus still loves all of you! Matt you're so popular! Can we be friends? Sorry, but I had to respond, since this is the longest message thread I have ever seen. Haha! Hey Camilla, I really want to come to your house this weekend, but I am not sure it will happen. I might have to work. :( Sadness in my soul. I'll find out for sure. Everyone have a fabulous day!
  about an hour ago ·
- B Z
  Ha ha, you obviously don't know much about political forums, I like how everyone avoids the actual political points, stays silent on the comment about caucus meetings, and then claim that we can't hack a real political forum. I like also the claim that Facebook is not a political forum, yet every major party, candidate, and political platform has a major presence on Facebook. It is funny how Facebook is an excuse for many adults (apparently present company included) use Facebook as a way to hang onto childish pursuits, maintain childhood friendships, and otherwise hold on to childish things. It no onset there have been talks about the dangers of the childish pursuits on social networking sites. You can fight to declare Facebook as something that may not be serious to you, but to the economic, business, and political world it is a very valid forum.
  
  May you take the words of Paul the apostle to heart.
  1 Cor. 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
  
  Maybe it's hard for some of you to understand, but many of us never had Facebook as a child, and it has nearly always been a forum for grown up conversation.
  42 minutes ago ·
- Mindy
  Okay B Z, you seem to be missing some points yourself, so here's my point now:
  
  "Matt J: Ya all you gotta do is read the political debate that got started on my wall and you'll see why I'm bugged.
  
  "Matt J: J B although I loved the comment about Rosie O'donnell, I think it's seriously time that you stop. If you can't respect that, then I'll delete it. I'm sorry if you're offended, but really enough is enough. I'm not the type to get real serious over anything, as most people know. I'm the type to be super chill, but this time I'm serious man."
  
  Now insert "B Z" where "J B" was in that last comment and maybe you'll get the point. Have a nice day B Z, and may God ever bless your life.